Addon Server RULES

Any Topics related to the No.2 Server
[Ben]
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by [Ben] »

Tipsi wrote:

It's the Christmas holidays. Two things happen: Population of mature players goes down. Population of immature players goes up.

When the festive season is over I'm sure things will return to normal.
This can't be an excuse. In our last admin meeting it was agreed on that on non gamenights and gamenights the standard should be kept the same, and that people should be coming to the server during the downtime with the same attitude as on a gamenight. Yet here we are saying that it's okay for people to be teamkilling each other and racing cars and vehicles around because it's christmas?

You can't have it both ways, when you want. (Not you personally Tipsi) I find this amusing that people start complaining about the standards on the server and then are involved in activities they were just campaigning against.
Tipsi wrote: Don't be afraid as a community member (and not an admin) to state the expectations of the #2 server. Get names and tell an admin about those who disrespect you or the server.
What happens when your admins are the ones involved/participating/organizing this? Where are they expected to go to then? How is that going to promote anything other than more of the same behavior?
You couldn't script your way out of a cardboard box.
Tom
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Tom »

Yeah i know tipsi, but im not talking about this week in itself.

There was all this talk of making the server great again, and apart from some like you there are not many admins that demand the respect to actually make a difference.

We will keep talking in circles until something clicks to make the server semi l33t again.
Terox
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Terox »

As I have said a gazillion times, it is up to the players within the community to police it.
Look at it this way
  1. The Admin is the executioner
  2. Every player is a member of the jury
  3. Every player on the server is in court being judged by every other player on the server
If there are enough voices then the admin should act and if he doesnt then complain about the admin and get his butt kicked.

If you see behaviour that you think is unnaceptable and YOU DO NOT......
  1. Speak up against the behaviour
  2. Do not backup others if they speak up about the behaviour
  1. THEN YOU CONDONE THAT BEHAVIOUR
  2. AND YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM
Don't wait for Somebody( = Nobody) else to speak up first

This is not Einsteins theory of Relativity, its so bloody simple and doesn't take a lot of effort, so the only reason this thread could exist is because your DOING NOTHING WHEN IT HAPPENS
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Wombat
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Wombat »

Ivan J wrote:So i went AFK last night for 5 min while there was some racing going on and when I came back I was dead and the answer I got when I asked what happened was that i was put down.

Is that where server 2 is going?
This goes along with what Terox is saying. If you see anything happening on the server which you disagree with, no matter how large or small, you need to let an admin know about it by any means (TS poke, forum private message etc). Nothing will change if no one reports poor behaviour.
[Ben] wrote:What happens when your admins are the ones involved/participating/organizing this? Where are they expected to go to then? How is that going to promote anything other than more of the same behavior?
The same goes for admins. If you see an admin doing something (or not doing something) which you disagree with, then you need to either tell that admin directly or tell another admin about the issue. Your complaint can be kept anonymous if you wish. If an admin isn't enforcing the rules or contributing to poor behaviour then we to know about it. Nothing will change if no one reports it.
Erppa
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Erppa »

Banter is welcomed, as long as you know when and when not to do it. You should not do it via the radio, only direct comms. It should also only be done through normal speaking volume, and not exceed that. When leaderships asks you to focus, postpone all conversations and distractions as best as possible.
Treat others with respect.
Who decides what is banter and what is "Disrespectful behaviour towards other players, Racism/bigotry or crude offensive humour", you might be ok being called a son of a fucking whore, but some people are not.

I say banter must go.

It is not important. It is not needed and certainly not wanted, when your "game face is on". This kind of behaviour only leads to problems. Which gets me to the second thing;
“When the bullets start flying, you put your game face on!”
Not good enough! When you are on server, your game face IS on.
You can have your shits and giggles in teamspeak, sure, but not in game.

We can not have relaxed attitude towards discipline, ever. It is very easy to loose discipline, but very hard to build it back.
When you are on #2 server take things seriously. If you want to have those shits and giggles in game, go somewhere else.
This is a mature gaming community, not a kindergarten
We do not tolerate idiots and I see no reason why we should list all the things idiots do so they can argue their case because we forgot to list one of them.
We police ourselves, don’t rock the boat and you will be fine.
Act like you are in a bar, sober and the person you are communicating with is stood in front of you at the bar. Would you treat the individual or say to the individual what you are just about to say?. If the answer is NO, then DO NOT DO IT HERE !
Treat others with respect.
Would you like to listen a stranger taunting you in a bar? Would you like to go to that bar, when you know it is going to happen? Would you like spend your time in that kind of atmosphere?

Try to act like civilized people. If you can not, this is not the right "bar" for you.
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Rodi
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Rodi »

Erppa wrote:
Banter is welcomed, as long as you know when and when not to do it. You should not do it via the radio, only direct comms. It should also only be done through normal speaking volume, and not exceed that. When leaderships asks you to focus, postpone all conversations and distractions as best as possible.
Treat others with respect.
Who decides what is banter and what is "Disrespectful behaviour towards other players, Racism/bigotry or crude offensive humour", you might be ok being called a son of a fucking whore, but some people are not.

I say banter must go.

It is not important. It is not needed and certainly not wanted, when your "game face is on". This kind of behaviour only leads to problems. Which gets me to the second thing;
“When the bullets start flying, you put your game face on!”
Not good enough! When you are on server, your game face IS on.
You can have your shits and giggles in teamspeak, sure, but not in game.

We can not have relaxed attitude towards discipline, ever. It is very easy to loose discipline, but very hard to build it back.
When you are on #2 server take things seriously. If you want to have those shits and giggles in game, go somewhere else.
This is a mature gaming community, not a kindergarten
We do not tolerate idiots and I see no reason why we should list all the things idiots do so they can argue their case because we forgot to list one of them.
We police ourselves, don’t rock the boat and you will be fine.
Act like you are in a bar, sober and the person you are communicating with is stood in front of you at the bar. Would you treat the individual or say to the individual what you are just about to say?. If the answer is NO, then DO NOT DO IT HERE !
Treat others with respect.
Would you like to listen a stranger taunting you in a bar? Would you like to go to that bar, when you know it is going to happen? Would you like spend your time in that kind of atmosphere?

Try to act like civilized people. If you can not, this is not the right "bar" for you.
So your solution to players not "policing" the server enough or people fooling around too much is to just stop every social interaction and turn this open and "regulars/newbie friendly" community with semi/hardcore milsim into a 100% milsim group where social interaction in would be punished, even if the situation at hand would allow so? Is this where we should go with our playstyle? Do we want this to basicly be a milsim-unit without any trials to enter?
If this is where we´ll go server 2(and possible server 1 if this gets enforced as much with all the randoms you get) might end up being empty, or with just so few players on it that we can´t do any larger mission with multiple assets. Remember blue-tags only? Didn´t improve the situation at all, it only created more problems than we had,e.g. missions being nearly empty, different "groups" within the community forming and hating/disrespecting others just to annoy them even more etc.

Rather than shutting every banter/talking down you might want to act in individual cases, in which people break rules and then you simply get rid of them(and that includes everyone, even admins). Letting the community police itself has worked over the course of this year, with exceptions of course. But honestly, this happens everywhere.
And I agree with terox:
Admins act based on what they see themselves and hear from members
->Every members needs to report issues when he sees any
->Every player must know that if he breaks the rules he will get punished by the community, seeing as members will report him.
If you don´t belive our community can police itself, I myself feel like you do not have much trust into this community and members.
Rip Inglisch
Cobra.
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Cobra. »

The thing is with Milsim and Arma, is that trying to simulate the Military is never going to work. ArmA simply doesn't allow it.

Now killing banter for the sake of discipline is in my opinion a really poor way of going about it. Yes in actuality, real soldiers won't be having banter whilst on patrol. The thing is we are not in a war zone trying to emulate that in arma isn't going to work there is simply not the same atmosphere. The reason why you won't have the same banter in a actual Chinook is you are not going to be shouting over engines.

Yes when stuff kicks off, people need to be able to switch that goes for when on the approach for the LZ. But if Banter goes at least i'm going. I remember when server 1/2 had the old "This isn't a Milsim server, but we do follow some of its guidelines...." (or similar). If Zeus is going the way of 7Cav or 15MEU. I'm gone.

If you want a 3rd Server where it follows hardcore Milsim have it. But don't change how S2 works it has a mix of semi-milsim and causal you won't find anywhere else. If I end up sitting in a field in Chernarus for 45 minutes not talking to anyone because i would get kicked or berated for talking out of turn, that's not a pleasurable experience. If this was real life it would be different. But its a video game. I'd say if you want hardcore realism go find a different server where they cater for that or create a S3 for it. But if you did I'd say player amounts would be far lower.
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.
Karle
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Karle »

People play games to have fun and enjoy themselves. Most missions ive played have being good due to the fact of having a decent squad where you can have a laugh and a giggle but can trust that each other will do their shit when the times calling.
Ive being in a mission before were our squad was left obsolete after the first contact (very-capable tank crew misunderstood some orders). Everybody in the squad still had a good time though because we had a bit of banter, whilst still covering keeping our shit together (we covered most of the AO and only took 3 casualtys which were promptly sorted). If that had of being in a hardcore milsim style, the first 10-15mins would of being okay but the hour after would have literally have being Running Simulator.

One of the big attractions of Zeus for me was the fact its CASUAL milsim. Casual to me means less serious and a bit more banter.

I agree with Cobra, stick a 3rd server up, even if only to gain an idea of how many people would be interested in going "Hardcore".
ashley
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by ashley »

Cobra. wrote:Yes in actuality, real soldiers won't be having banter whilst on patrol.
Completely and utterly wrong....
SirBeagles
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by SirBeagles »

Erppa wrote:I say banter must go.


Here we go again.

Cobra. wrote:Yes in actuality, real soldiers won't be having banter whilst on patrol.


You fuckin' wat m8.
Tom
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Tom »

Only thing that is annoying is when a squad lead needs to repeat shit and when you join a server where people are just "messing around for being bored".
Cobra.
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Cobra. »

The Pegleg LUL wrote:
Erppa wrote:I say banter must go.


Here we go again.

Cobra. wrote:Yes in actuality, real soldiers won't be having banter whilst on patrol.


You fuckin' wat m8.
I mean in the sense of not shouting that your mum is a slag while doing important shit. I worded it shit, of course there is banter on patrol otherwise I just contradicted what I was saying.
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.
StRiKeR
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by StRiKeR »

Not this again.

1. I agree with Erppa in that our current guidelines based on "maturity" and "reporting other players" are weak. Just as some say that you can always cheat clear cut rules, you can cheat a single word in its interpretation 100x more. A prominent reason why people do not get reported is because nobody knows what to actually report and what action is actually over the line. Food for thought and a little experimentation maybe.

2. I agree with Cobra in that we should never mess with our mix of cabablity as a team, yet comfort in our way of operating. Stiffening the whole thing up doesn't help, then we become just another one of those cringe fests. Regardless of what people say we can do a lot of things pretty damn well compared to what else is out there. That of course means were constantly walking the blade between collected/capable & casual. Everyone can see how easy it is to tip that out of balance. It is everyone's own responsibility to make that work. Let's not get too worked up about every single case of that failing and work things out on an individual basis, face to face, more often. Also, not every criticism has to be an accusation. If you are playing next to people who you know like to set the bar a little higher than yourself, try and respect that. Should be simple.

Also think more (for yourself), drink less (of the cheap liquor), work out (your own issues), bladibla ... Happy New Year! :mrgreen:
Rory
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Rory »

This shit leads to servers being locked.

The whole server isn't going to explode because Timmy had one bad day on it. Teamkills and stuff like that should be reported to an admin or senior admin if admins are involved. The incident will then be sorted.

If you have a problem with the discipline and maturity then sorry, tough luck. Jack shit is going to be able to change unless the rules change. The whole bar Ideology doesn't really hold up on today's servers.

Happy Hogmanay
Erppa
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Re: Addon Server RULES

Post by Erppa »

So your solution to players not "policing" the server enough or people fooling around too much is to just stop every social interaction and turn this open and "regulars/newbie friendly" community with semi/hardcore milsim into a 100% milsim group where social interaction in would be punished, even if the situation at hand would allow so?
Rather than shutting every banter/talking down you might want to act in individual cases, in which people break rules and then you simply get rid of them(and that includes everyone, even admins). Letting the community police itself has worked over the course of this year, with exceptions of course. But honestly, this happens everywhere.
Let me try to expand my meaning a little. I would not even dream to trying to stop people from speaking.
The tone of talk is kind of "below the belt" and that is my problem.

Talk to the other players as they were say, your teacher. You would not include any improper comments, etc.

The new kids who show up in our server think that is ok to say stuff like fuck you to the others, since they hear older members doing it. That is why we need to clean up our act.

And getting rid of people? We took extremely long time to get rid of (permanently banning) one team killing, base bombing player. It probably would not have happened if I had not made the decision and taken care of it.
We knew he did stupid shit, but were not allowed to get rid of him, since "top brass" hesitated and wanted proof. Eventually, we caught him in the act of placing bombs in base and that was enough proof for me.
About the proof, I think community members word should be respected and trusted, especially if there is more than on guy complaining. No smoke without fire, etc.

We can talk getting rid of idiots, but that simply does not happen. Once a player is in this "active members" group, they can pretty much behave as they want, and nothing will happen.

I say that players in server #2 have done piss poor job policing ourselves. That might change, but it will be hard when you hear replies like "There is no rule against swearing!" in the game, when you comment other players behaviour.

There can't be rule for everything. People just need to think a little and that should not be too hard, or too much asked.
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