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Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Any Topics related to the No.1 Server
ashley
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by ashley » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:08 pm

Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
A couple of things could significantly improve the community;
- If there was a way i can be notified when s1 has 12+ players currently online during regular night, i'd join more often.
There are plenty of applications to do this, go and research some.
Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
- Make more Zeus events. Minor gamenights that are less regular/scheduled, perhaps planned a day or so before or just in a few minutes time. Announcements for upcoming "Zeus" sessions on regular nights can boost numbers. Encourage people to find your steam group for this to work.
Then set some events up, if you want content, then make content, people who complain about content but make no effort are worse than those who just don't give a damn.
Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
- More tender love and care from admins and veteran members for s1 on regular nights. This will make members come back for gamenights. That was what made me stay when i first found this community.
The ways admins can help is being discussed, just having admins on the server won't help the server recover to where it used to be.
Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
- A fair schedule for s2 being open. s2 players can perhaps use s1 as a meeting point or warm-up until they have the numbers for s2.
The way server 2 is handled is as fair as possible, it would not be fair to leave server 2 off just because only 5 people want to play on it.
Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
- Task force radio will do wonders but is worrying if new members can't get set up. This can be frustrating to some, but if you can convince them it's worth the hassle, they might not give up easy.
TFAR will never be added to server 1.
Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
- When missions are bad, or badly executed, it feels like we wasted an hour setting up, planning, briefing, playing, debriefing... More veteran players need to be in charge of missions to ensure gameplay quality.
And all veteran players are guaranteed to want to take charge of missions or be better than someone who is new to the community? This is a silly assumption, having someone good in leadership doesn't make a mission perfect, its down to every indivual to help make it perfect. We have plenty of people who have been in the community for years that are no good at leadership.

Layden
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Layden » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:32 am

ashley wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:08 pm
Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
- When missions are bad, or badly executed, it feels like we wasted an hour setting up, planning, briefing, playing, debriefing... More veteran players need to be in charge of missions to ensure gameplay quality.
And all veteran players are guaranteed to want to take charge of missions or be better than someone who is new to the community? This is a silly assumption, having someone good in leadership doesn't make a mission perfect, its down to every indivual to help make it perfect. We have plenty of people who have been in the community for years that are no good at leadership.
+1

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Wolfy_
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Wolfy_ » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:19 pm

ashley wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:08 pm
Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
- Make more Zeus events. Minor gamenights that are less regular/scheduled, perhaps planned a day or so before or just in a few minutes time. Announcements for upcoming "Zeus" sessions on regular nights can boost numbers. Encourage people to find your steam group for this to work.
Then set some events up, if you want content, then make content, people who complain about content but make no effort are worse than those who just don't give a damn.
He wasn't complaining, just suggesting. Suggestions from people outside of the creators' circle can be incredibly useful and we shouldn't dismiss them. Expanding on his original point, it may be a good idea to set up another 'ZGM Scenarios' thread specifically for Server 1; encouraging creators to make more new, original content specifically for Server 1.
ashley wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:08 pm
Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
- More tender love and care from admins and veteran members for s1 on regular nights. This will make members come back for game nights. That was what made me stay when i first found this community.
The ways admins can help is being discussed, just having admins on the server won't help the server recover to where it used to be.
Again, I disagree. An active admin ensures everyone behaves and adheres to the rules. This is useful for newer players who do not necessarily understand the way Zeus runs. As you say later on in your post, 'its down to every indivual to help make it perfect,' an active and attentive admin helps to ensure that 'every individual' is contributing to this.
ashley wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:08 pm
Lionheart wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:03 am
- When missions are bad, or badly executed, it feels like we wasted an hour setting up, planning, briefing, playing, debriefing... More veteran players need to be in charge of missions to ensure gameplay quality.
And all veteran players are guaranteed to want to take charge of missions or be better than someone who is new to the community? This is a silly assumption, having someone good in leadership doesn't make a mission perfect, its down to every indivual to help make it perfect. We have plenty of people who have been in the community for years that are no good at leadership.
I agree with Lionheart here, I think you may have misunderstood. The term 'Veteran' refers to: 'a person who has had long experience in a particular field.' Thus, someone who is a regular, and experienced in leadership, can have a drastic effect on the enjoyability and player count of the game. Someone in leadership who knows what they're doing is the world away from a new leader. Now, I am not saying new players shouldn't take leadership - they absolutely should - but having a well-versed XO to accompany a new leader may be pragmatic in increasing the quality of a mission.

Excellent points Lionheart, don't be afraid to contribute more ideas :D

Cobra.
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Cobra. » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:41 pm

Again, I disagree. An active admin ensures everyone behaves and adheres to the rules. This is useful for newer players who do not necessarily understand the way Zeus runs. As you say later on in your post, 'its down to every indivual to help make it perfect,' an active and attentive admin helps to ensure that 'every individual' is contributing to this.
Yeah, no.

You haven't been here long enough to decide if things work or not in the long term in an administration aspect of a server, so leave it to the people whom's detailing is to administer the servers, we here at Zeus Community are not a democracy it is an Oligarchy get used to it.

Along with the veteran crap, I don't think you realise that they are people too and they might not want to take leadership roles because that's all they ever end up doing which leads to a cycle of only them leading because the newer players never need to due to them not having thick enough skin to accept the fact they may mess up.

If missions are bad then take it up with the Mission Dev's using the feedback form.

ZGM Scenarios are a convoluted idea due to JIP's. #1 is a public server with constant movement in and out. This will lead to a clusterfuck with pubbies joining a session without TS3 and fucking it up which would lower overall quality of a session and encourage movement to #2 lowering the player population of #1. Hence why we have Patrol Ops because it accounts for have randomers and others joining, if you have suggestions to improve Patrol Ops or a similar alternative that works as a continuous mission, I'd love to here it.

We have enough issues teaching people on #2 how to run TFAR and ACRE. You think it would work on #1 without entirely killing it?

#1 was always a gateway into #2 however that is no longer the case. Due to people bypassing #1 straight #2 which kills the player count there and dumps a bunch of people onto #2 without understanding how we doing things here.
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.

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Wolfy_
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Wolfy_ » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:11 pm

Cobra. wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:41 pm
Again, I disagree. An active admin ensures everyone behaves and adheres to the rules. This is useful for newer players who do not necessarily understand the way Zeus runs. As you say later on in your post, 'its down to every indivual to help make it perfect,' an active and attentive admin helps to ensure that 'every individual' is contributing to this.
Yeah, no.

You haven't been here long enough to decide if things work or not in the long term in an administration aspect of a server, so leave it to the people whom's detailing is to administer the servers, we here at Zeus Community are not a democracy it is an Oligarchy get used to it.
Great use of ad hominem. Don't assume what I do and do not know about running a community. Additionally, a community thrives on the suggestions and feedback it receives to improve the server. You may have mistaken my tone; I was not telling the admins what to do, merely suggesting. There seems to be a strange culture here where people are resistant to any form of suggestion or discussion.
Cobra. wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:41 pm
Along with the veteran crap, I don't think you realise that they are people too and they might not want to take leadership roles because that's all they ever end up doing which leads to a cycle of only them leading because the newer players never need to due to them not having thick enough skin to accept the fact they may mess up.
I'm not saying we should force people into leadership roles. I was agreeing with Lionheart.
Cobra. wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:41 pm
If missions are bad then take it up with the Mission Dev's using the feedback form.
We were saying that some missions may be negatively affected by poor leadership, the mission devs would find this information little to useless.
Cobra. wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:41 pm
ZGM Scenarios are a convoluted idea due to JIP's. #1 is a public server with constant movement in and out. This will lead to a clusterfuck with pubbies joining a session without TS3 and fucking it up which would lower overall quality of a session and encourage movement to #2 lowering the player population of #1. Hence why we have Patrol Ops because it accounts for have randomers and others joining, if you have suggestions to improve Patrol Ops or a similar alternative that works as a continuous mission, I'd love to here it.

We have enough issues teaching people on #2 how to run TFAR and ACRE. You think it would work on #1 without entirely killing it?
ZGMs could work. What you're describing is just the nature of Server 1 with JIPs, not necessarily Server 1 ZGMs.
Cobra. wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:41 pm
#1 was always a gateway into #2 however that is no longer the case. Due to people bypassing #1 straight #2 which kills the player count there and dumps a bunch of people onto #2 without understanding how we doing things here.
People who are playing on Server 2 are not the cause of Server 1's demise, they're simply being used as a scapegoat. There's plenty of players to go around, we're just not attracting players like we used to. If Server 1 was more attractive and provided better value, it would gain more players. There is no use blaming players on Server 2 - they're only here to have fun. I was under the impression learning and teaching each other as we go along was part of the Zeus Community experience; I wouldn't say this is a negative at all, I've learn't a lot from others on Server 2 and have shown a lot to others, making friends along the way. Hostility towards people who are new will only drive them away.

Cobra.
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Cobra. » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:27 pm

Note, I am not personally attacking you so don't try and turn it that way by stating it was ad homineim and making it look fallacious which it is not since I am literally stating that you have not been in this community for enough time to see any long term (6+ months) measures. When the admins say something and state that it is what it is just don't argue it doesn't help because I am not against suggestions since if you look through my posts I do suggest things.

I am 80% certain there is a section on the form for how the mission was commanded and my point stands anyway just take it up with the commander instead.

I never stated that ZGM's wouldn't work. I said it was convoluted due to JIP's and how it plays into the reasons behind running Patrol ops with the admin ZGM slots.

I never blamed players on #2, I simply said that people are on their with limited ideas on how we do things as seen on the previous game nights with people using Side chat indiscriminately, slotting up randomly, and just not totally understanding how and why we do things. Do not try and turn it into a salt fest.

In fact I actually encouraged learning in the sense of letting somebody else command and letting the veterans sit back and watch. People learn through their mistakes, if you do not have the thick enough skin to live with the mistakes then commanding might not be that persons best idea.

Finally stop picking apart every single response to your points. It is really not helpful and just creates salt, so just leave it with this post before people start to hate each other.
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.

ashley
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by ashley » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:49 pm

Wolfy_ wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:19 pm

He wasn't complaining, just suggesting. Suggestions from people outside of the creators' circle can be incredibly useful and we shouldn't dismiss them. Expanding on his original point, it may be a good idea to set up another 'ZGM Scenarios' thread specifically for Server 1; encouraging creators to make more new, original content specifically for Server 1.
Read properly, I never said he was complaining, I didn't dismiss his point, I told him to create content...
Wolfy_ wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:19 pm

Again, I disagree. An active admin ensures everyone behaves and adheres to the rules. This is useful for newer players who do not necessarily understand the way Zeus runs. As you say later on in your post, 'its down to every indivual to help make it perfect,' an active and attentive admin helps to ensure that 'every individual' is contributing to this.
You can disagree all you like, I have seen the effects of just having an admin on there and it doesn't work as well as people think and doesn't encourage self policing.
Wolfy_ wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:19 pm

I agree with Lionheart here, I think you may have misunderstood. The term 'Veteran' refers to: 'a person who has had long experience in a particular field.' Thus, someone who is a regular, and experienced in leadership, can have a drastic effect on the enjoyability and player count of the game. Someone in leadership who knows what they're doing is the world away from a new leader. Now, I am not saying new players shouldn't take leadership - they absolutely should - but having a well-versed XO to accompany a new leader may be pragmatic in increasing the quality of a mission.
Then everyone who comes on to our servers are veterens, as you said yourself
Wolfy_ wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:19 pm
Veteran' refers to: 'a person who has had long experience in a particular field.'
I would assume 99% of the people that come on our server have played games for a long time, therefore they are veteren players. So anyone who came onto our server can take squadlead by your logic.

Here's a tip, You haven't been around for long enough to pick apart peoples arguements, not all communities are the same, so what worked in your last community might not work here. Now I am all for suggestions, as long as people bringing counter arguements are well informed, which you are not. So please try and learn a little about the community before bringing an arguement to peoples suggestions.

Eagle-Eye
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Eagle-Eye » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:15 pm

Quick question:
Has it been tested if there's an improvement when you make some game night rules permanent? E.g. Making use of Teamspeak almost obligatory 24/7, instead of just "highly recommended"? (How to check and enforce is another thing entirely, but that's probably where admin activity steps in)

The way I see it, on that teamspeak-rule:
1) If you can run ArmA, you can run TS3, so there's really no excuse. If you can't speak for whatever reason, at least you can still listen to comms and type replies.
2) With everyone on TS, comms are better, especially if people are slotted into the proper team channels.
3) Monkey see, monkey do. People playing multiplayer are looking for other human players. Ergo, clearer visibility of activity (quick hop on TS instead of browsing ArmA lobby) should draw more people in.


EDIT: To expand on that with my own story/POV, that's how and why I started on server 2. I hopped on your TS for the very first time, saw a large group of members in the Server 2 briefing room, and maybe 3-4 spread out over all the server 1 channels, so off to server 2 I went.
Last edited by Eagle-Eye on Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cobra.
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Cobra. » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:18 pm

Pretty sure for #1 that is already in place Eagle-Eye?
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.

Eagle-Eye
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Eagle-Eye » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:29 pm

Is it? Okay then. I thought it was still mainly a recommendation, given the public nature of the server.

That said, I too bypass server 1 except for game nights, but I just know that those seem to be far stricter than what I find on other regular public servers, hence the idea of making some rules permanent. The TS one was just the example I think could help most in having a quick way to show activity and improving coordination/team play/gameplay experience.

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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Terox » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:21 pm

#No.1 is the "Gateway" server.
Old blood leaves, we need new blood to replace it and that's what the No.1 is for
It is by far the most important server we have
This should be the first server any newcomers to the community plays on.
It has to remain as publicly accessible as possible. This means nothing should be required but pure B.I.S Content (Vanilla ArmA3 + DLC's)
Recommendations are there to entice the player to get more involved and to help improve their gaming experience.
To create a rule that players "MUST" use teamspeak is wrong and in some cases would deter potential newcomers.
To ask them to download it because of the reasons stated above is good thing, but at the end of then day nobody should be forcing this. VOIP does the job just fine in those circumstances.
If a player becomes a regular then you would expect in most cases that player to start using teamspeak and the Clientside addon pack that we provide.
They would be nurtured into that by peer pressure, not by a "You will do this"

The entire process is designed so that the player takes smallish stepping stones from newcomer to No.2 veteran player

1) Newcomer to Zeus plays on the No.1, doesnt require anything else.
2) He returns because enjoyed the experience and starts playing regularly
3) He decides to download and install teamspeak because others have advised him its for the better
4) After a few more sessions he dopwnloads and installs the ZClient pack
5) After a while he enrols for the FMT training
6) He now feels at home in the community and wants to play on the No.2
7) Migrating to the No.2 is a big step, however he has already experienced and understands
  • How we do things
    Where all the support info is
    Knows enough players to ask for advice if he gets stuck installing the No.2 addon apps

That's how the system was designed to work, what shouldn't be happening is players migrating to the No.2 too quickly


Reference the current state of the No.1.
I know it has diminishing numbers.
This is because we haven't been able to maintain a critical mass of players on non gaming nights on there to entice those new, onto our server.


What is critical mass, you ask.
This is the number of players you need on the server to start drawing in more players. This value is around 20-25 ish
and must be maintained consistently for it to keep a server full. (That means every night during prime gaming hours (UK 18:30-21:30)
Now I haven't done much to keep this alive basically because PO4 isn't far away and am hoping this will help us to "Kick start" the server again

When it is released, we will need to work hard for approximately 2 weeks maintaining high player numbers, this will entice enough new blood and some of the old blood back.
I don't feel the effort should be put in until that point as the effort to maintain that interest on an old mission would be much harder

Bishop
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Re: Suggestions for Server 1 Improvement

Post by Bishop » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:47 am

I've been away from #1 myself for a long time, mainly because of low player counts and me being too lazy to take up group leader positions.
But that's a poor excuse; with PO4 I hope to return, and try to more often fill out leader positions when needed, despite limited experience.

PS: I have also applied as tester for phronk/hustler who is currently developing an addon-free TFAR-like script for simulating radio distance:
https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topi ... rma-radio/

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