Thunder fire mission tips

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Bishop
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Thunder fire mission tips

Post by Bishop »

I couldn't find guidelines for Thunder on server #1 (though I coulda sworn I've seen it somewhere) so here's the guidelines I follow.

Ammunition Types (visit the Eagle rearm/refuel truck to restock shells)
  • 32x HE (the default 1 round high explosive if not otherwise specified in fire mission)
  • 2x Guided (note this shell is NOT laser guided, it is simply more precise than other shells)
  • 6x APmine (each shell spreads some amount of anti personnel mines within some radius of impact point)
  • 2x Cluster (each shell detonates some amount of high explosive within some radius of impact point)
  • 6x Smoke (a single shell of white smoke, likely with same precision as the HE shell)
  • 2x Laser (this shell can be guided onto moving targets by UAV or forward observer's laser designator)
  • 6x ATmine (each shell spreads some amount of anti tank mines within some radius of impact point)
Call for Fire (procedure below is not proper, but is shorter than Wikipedia)
  1. Forward Observer places a yellow plus-marker labeled for instance: FM1_HE1_50m
    Fire Mission number 1 high explosive 1 round (default spread radius is 50m if not specified)
  2. FO requests fire mission from Command/XO/Thunder depending on who is in charge:
    "Command, fire mission 1, grid 0515 0355, how copy?"
  3. Command/XO/Thunder approves or denies the fire mission request (if Thunder is in charge they do the reply):
    "Recon, fire mission 1 approved, out.
  4. Then Thunder contacts FO when first shell is loaded and aimed (this may take a while if aiming manually):
    "Recon, fire mission 1 ready, grid 0515 0355, 1 round HE, 50 meter spread, 50 seconds to target, how copy?"
    If Thunder does not contact FO ten seconds after request was approved, the FO should contact them from here on:
    "Thunder, fire mission 1, grid 0515 0355, how copy?"
    The reason for no response may be Thunder is relocating, busy, or under fire if unprotected and away from base:
    "Recon, Thunder is moving into position, ready in 2 minutes, out."
  5. Once Thunder has stated they are ready the FO calls it in (or cancels the fire mission if situation has changed):
    "Thunder, fire for effect, over."
  6. Then Thunder fires its first shell and replies as they are loading and firing any additional shells for the fire mission:
    "Shot, 50 seconds, out."
  7. When first shell is halfway to target Thunder reopens communication (FO should enable laser designator now):
    "Halfway, 25 seconds, out."
  8. When first shell is 5 seconds from target Thunder reopens communication for battle damage assessment:
    "Splash, over."
  9. Finally the FO will conclude the fire mission (and delete the marker, or move marker if not concluded):
    "Target suppressed, out."
    So if target requires same fire mission again FO replies as below instead (Thunder then proceeds from step 6):
    "Repeat fire, over."
Random Tips and Terminology
  • Do speak the mouseover grid but only if Command/XO/Thunder cannot find fire mission marker (mark fire missions in Side chat).
  • Mouseover grid is only 6 digits (i.e. 051 east 035 north) so add in the last 10m digits 4 and 8 yourself (i.e. 0515 0355 is center of grid).
  • Do increment the fire mission number so there are never multiple markers sharing the same number (and delete markers after use).
  • Do not stray too far alone from base and rearm truck, as random infantry/armor patrols make quick work of Thunder's weak hull.
  • Do try to use Command voice as Thunder for short easy communication, or Command chat as fallback if others are cluttering the radio.
  • Do chat an occasional SITREP during quiet time, counting your available rounds and average flight time to targets in area of operations.
  • Do place your first round directly on the marker, and remaining rounds as specified by the spread radius (default 50m from first round).
  • Thunder should warn danger close just before their "how copy?" when ready, if friendlies are within spread radius +300m of target.
  • Beware the Enter key, as it will fire your loaded round when pressed outside chat (never aim danger close to friendlies or civilians).
  • Zoom in on map to ensure you are aiming directly on top of fire mission marker (use Guided shells for even better precision).
  • Forward Observer FO on Laser fire mission should turn on designator when rounds are half-way (i.e. 25 seconds after the "shot" reply).
  • UAV laser designators work just fine for Thunder as well (for all designators, try to aim on the ground nearby or on the roof of target).
  • Learn and love Multiple Rounds Simultaneous Impact MRSI or "how to hit multiple targets at the same time with only one artillery piece".
  • Expert FOs could even request two fire missions 1 and 2 at the same time, if they know Thunder can MRSI both targets at the same time.
  • Only do Manual Targeting if you think artillery computer is for nuggets (practice in single player first please, to verify calculations).
  • Expert FOs and Thunder may need to start manual fire missions 1 round at a time as "adjust fire" until they are on target to "fire for effect".
  • I.e. first "adjust fire, out" round lands 50m east of target, so second message is "adjust fire, 50 meters west, out" until right on target.
Please reply with the proper community guidelines, tips, details, lessons learned, etc. if you have them handy. Thanks :)
Last edited by Bishop on Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:25 pm, edited 6 times in total.
eskyo
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Re: Thunder fire mission tips

Post by eskyo »

I've got a M4 scorcher range chart for semi-manual fire in short,medium and far modes.

It's an excel where you input you Artillery Base Position (by default is next to the CAS ressuply)
And the target position, and then it makes the calcs for the cannon elevation*

NOTE1: YOU MUST SELECT THE APROPIATE MUZZLE VELOCITY (excel makes the calc for that too)
NOTE2: Keep in mind that the scorcher is slightly higher in the front, so it's not the same firing with the barrel aligned with the tank than barrel perpendicullar to the tank. This range only works if your tank chasis is looking towards the fire mission direction.
NOTE3: Input positions require a 4 digit coordinate. (check your map to see in which direction increments/decrements each axis)
NOTE4: The data is collected from HE shells, I don't know if other type of shells have different ballistics.
NOTE5: For ETA and dispersion, check the included tabs for Short and Medium. I usually only check it one at the beggining of the mission and then call splash 7-9sec before my chronometers gets to the reference ETA.


edit... i didn't see you posted a calculator already, either way, you have to substract 1.6º from the calculated value because of the vehicle tilt.
Attachments
m4 scorcher range.zip
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lucius
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Re: Thunder fire mission tips

Post by lucius »

Liking all of this. Good stuff.

I will look into putting both the guidelines and the ranging system (subject to testing) onto a document, with your permissions ofc.
eskyo
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Re: Thunder fire mission tips

Post by eskyo »

one more thing, in manual, you can fine adjust the elevation with SHIFT+PgUP/PgDN
lucius wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:48 pm Liking all of this. Good stuff.

I will look into putting both the guidelines and the ranging system (subject to testing) onto a document, with your permissions ofc.
sure check it, I did the spreadsheet december 2015.
If I remeber well I used some kind of script I found on the internet that gave you the speed of the round (any weapon).
Then calculate the elevation with the ballistics formula:
Image
And then I compared the Elevation given by the formula and the elevation given by Artillery computer to find a constant 1.6º offset in the results. (it gets worse in the lower and upper range limit of the selected firing mode).
Then I tested in virtual arsenal



I think that the problem with thunder in #1 is that commander/recon assets don't know how to use it effectively. The slow process of artillery strikes tends to end into overusing eagle/hawk instead and pilots that engage everything don't help much. For example, when I play eagle I usually "rol" it a bit, leaving wheeled targets for infantry, making unnecessary rearming RTBs, and giving some "untrue" information to command as "possible AA in the area, will maintain altitude for radar scan" . But well that's another topic sorry XD
What I mean is that we need (including infantry) to know when thunder can be usefull, when can tasks be delegated to thunder instead CAS, and so on.
Dmitry Yuri
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Re: Thunder fire mission tips

Post by Dmitry Yuri »

eskyo wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:02 pm And then I compared the Elevation given by the formula and the elevation given by Artillery computer to find a constant 1.6º offset in the results. (it gets worse in the lower and upper range limit of the selected firing mode).
Then I tested in virtual arsenal

A while ago I made this artillery computer mod with the intention of having it put into @ZClient.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=440

The reason why it isnt in there now is that when I started it that formula was accurate and worked.
Now as you mensioned, BIS introduced some kind of offset.

However if you use the ACE3 Mod of the MK6 the formula is correct. Which is why the mod says ACE MK6 only and is only included in @ZCommon.

Do you know if that 1.6º offset is constant across all artillery pieces? and how bad does it get in the lower and upper range limits?
eskyo
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Re: Thunder fire mission tips

Post by eskyo »

Dmitry Yuri wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:06 pm
eskyo wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:02 pm And then I compared the Elevation given by the formula and the elevation given by Artillery computer to find a constant 1.6º offset in the results. (it gets worse in the lower and upper range limit of the selected firing mode).
Then I tested in virtual arsenal
A while ago I made this artillery computer mod with the intention of having it put into @ZClient.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=440
The reason why it isnt in there now is that when I started it that formula was accurate and worked.
Now as you mensioned, BIS introduced some kind of offset.
However if you use the ACE3 Mod of the MK6 the formula is correct. Which is why the mod says ACE MK6 only and is only included in @ZCommon.
Do you know if that 1.6º offset is constant across all artillery pieces? and how bad does it get in the lower and upper range limits?
Only tested the M4 with HE shells. And I assume it's caused by the tilt of the vehicle. If I remember well, when you try to horizon the scope you see this offset in the elevation reading. And also firing in diferent angles from chasis orientation gave me different results.

You can see the offsets in the excel:
For example:
- SHORT
850m offset: -1,70º
900m offset: -1,52º
950m offset: -1,67º
all other ranges vary from -1,58º to -1,62º.

- MEDIUM
2300m offset -1,57º
2400m offset -1,66º
2500m offset -1,58º
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