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Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

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Ender
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Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

Post by Ender » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:08 pm

Make sure you read Olympus's thread and understand what the meaning of the idea is.

Olympus Thread:
https://zeus-community.net/a3forums/vie ... ?f=7&t=948

Poll link:
https://strawpoll.com/acd1pyfr


We need as many votes as possible to get this idea to be discussed. When you vote you can vote on 3 options regarding no or preferable length goal, what day of the week and how often this big mission event should happen. This idea by Olympus is about having a more coveted/advertised event that focus on one big mission preferably inspired by a real world operation. If we get enough people to follow this idea it can be put to admins/players attention and further discussed to solve the problems involved to make it as good of an experience as possible for everyone participating.

Some of the problems involved can be the following:
-Mission makers
-Breaks/boredom
-Advertisement/anticipation
-Mission setup
-Responsibilities
etc

However don't get darkened by the problems because the worst thing that can happen is that it won't work well and be put down, but can also turn out to be great and is definitely worth a try. Feel free to make replies discussing these obstacles.
Last edited by Ender on Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It is the challenge that makes one better, to push one's limit and actively look for things to do better- Ender

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Ender
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Re: Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

Post by Ender » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:29 pm

Event might be put down due to not enough participation

Won't be any longer missions more focused on logistics/longplay
It is the challenge that makes one better, to push one's limit and actively look for things to do better- Ender

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Thor
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Re: Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

Post by Thor » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:47 pm

I like the ideas though, as stated in original thread. Thanks for the effort! and let's keep this in discussion every now and then^^ And yeah, the main problems i see are:
1.: playercount on specific date(willtake time to establish)
2.: difficult mission design
-when a) no dynamic tasks like dynamic recon(small player count)/dynamic combat(large player count)OPs
-and b) no zeus enabled(while the zeus needs to know what he's doing, that can actually make up for very small player count or lack of ready playable missions/lack of new missions/spicing things up..

I guess we could try out with mission designers and good communication: make one or two lengthy missions together,
and think of an zeus template(maybe with a co-zeus slot for RP elements with larger playerbase)

3.: those lengthy missions could involve:
-respawn(nothing more frustrating having a long mission and let's say a squadwipe first off)
-transport vehicles(important logistics roles - like no Jip-spawn on team)
-support elements/teams
-either a set of objectives that build on each other and get harder over time. || or a set of dynamic created missions like dynamic combat ops?

CReating these missions should involve ALL mission designers, technicians and admins from start-on, so technical difficulties can be overcome and standard rules will be applied and have a consensus. (and to spread workload ofc)


4.:The Zeus/Curator Template is great if we have a) unexpected mission-related technical issues/bugs/update has broken sth.// and b) a player count thats gonna be too much or non-sufficient to play above lengthy mission/ or just the majority of those not in the mood for a long mission at all. (although Zeus missions can be quite long as well - depends on Zeus skills of the Zeus ;) )
In addition, a zeus mission could easily involve unique playstyles like conquering a small enemy FOB before they can call it in, then steal their uniforms and sneak into the enemy base to steal some shit/ sabotage/HVT extraction/ etc... and exfil.. more unique possibilities ;)


Just some ideas, not all of them are new ;)
Last edited by Thor on Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Folau
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Re: Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

Post by Folau » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:40 pm

If I knew there was the desire for longer missions, and suitably large numbers for that to work, I would gladly make them. However that would take away what time I have for mission making, and as they would not get played at present I instead stick to designs for 20-40 players aimed at 60-90 minutes for completion.

I could easily envisage a larger/longer mission taking shape, with involved resupply, numerous complementary/cascading objectives, and large ORBATs, but with current numbers on Gamenights over the past few months I don't see it as a high priority for my efforts. That said, if something was organised with the relevant commitment that may change my opinion.

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Re: Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

Post by Cobra. » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:32 pm

I don't really understand the desire to 'act out' actual battles and events. Firstly this community gets bitchy enough if a mission is too hard or designed to be failed and inversely complain if it is too easy. You won't find a battle that was not one or the other since you don't fight a battle on even terms. Like if you want to emulate Afghan? Send 30 blokes out to clear 15 compounds and encounter a single enemy fire team that gets slotted by an Apache. Not a particularly stimulating video game experience. Real life doesn't translate well to Arma since in reality you are attempt to simple achieve an objective as it is your job and fun is not a requirement especially with lives on the line which are not in Arma.

Longer missions will simply involve more waiting for resupps, planning, and execution and will not change how an assault or firefight works. If you want a waiting simulator just go sit in a hedge for a few hours. Missions like Nuttex's series from ages ago was a good way to make an extended campaign that still worked as a video game.
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.

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Thor
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Re: Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

Post by Thor » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:53 pm

@Folau, @ Cobra, that's what i'd go with, too, but u2 got me a bit wrong as well, i thought about lengthy missions not only for high numbers, but also for small numbers, i don't remember what i had in mind lateley,
but that could be something like a CO+UAV/JTAC + 2 teams of SF stealth mission with possibility of mission fail when alerting too many enemy units or sth..
==>> "lengthy" missions does not necessarily mean they have tons of action/millions of enemy units thrown at us, needing 80 + active players and ten different objectives per mission,
It might actually be just about more tactical moving, more tedious flanking(on foot),
more surprise/unknown factors, [e.g. a (time-/object-/position-)triggered emergency message from some friendly ai team,
that can even turn out as a trap.. or a high-prio task/sudden retasking and so on],
that lure in the mists that have us moving even more carefully or communicating even better(setups with radios for SLs only for example/any mods not only wwII, only applied on Server2 ofc) etc...

=> design goal, as cobra stated "waiting sim" ;), ::
Make it interesting! - dot really small patrols around, more like sentrys(really just 1-4 ai, an enemy supply dump, mortar pos, passing enemy transport vic..) add some civs hanging/walking/driving around, dot some small objects around, even do anomalies for some modded/strange/spooky missions - just keep it balanced for fps' sake :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And in general those missions can vary from
easy (SF player team against extra low-skilled insurgent AI)
to hard(like russian SF against some NATO, with params to sabotage and not get spotted or whatever..).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And regarding "a mission is too hard"(-to successfully complete):

a) i think we played those multiple times on Gamenights, and most ppl including myself actually enjoyed mission fails as well, because the experience was/is still fun! [some ppl will always complain about everything :twisted: ]

b) You could always use triggers and conditions or admin choose (quite easy when using F3 ferstaberinde framework) to determine different endings(not just the casualty cap, maybe also a partial win if cas.-cap is reached, but the enemy supply depot destroyed/HVT extracted/killed-e.g."tactical retreat", also for missions intended to be extra hard maybe do a respawn in wave as reinforcements[that does not work for SF missions due to the nature of those in my opinion, but rather to normal aas, assault and deff missions])

c) in missions that are 'too hard', you might wanna enable a zeus in general to be filled by a reasonable player or a restricted zeus with support capabilities for our platoon(cap/cas/arty barrages with a limit+reload timer thingy, respawn of transport/support vics/ifvs/r&r stuff whatnot, scaling reasonable with mission difficulty). ((In addition, while taking one player slot, this zeus slot might help a mission with low numbers or so..)) Also, this might reduce waiting time for resupps and such(zeus airdrops for example, without too much comms hazzle).

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Thor
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Re: Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

Post by Thor » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:08 pm

@Cobra: are there some videos of those missions from Nuttex still around? :-)

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Re: Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

Post by Smolof » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:47 pm

I have a feeling you guys are overestimating the timeframe of 60 -90 minutes. It's really not that long and we have plenty of missions that fit that criteria. Take one of my favorite missions by Striker for example, where you halodrop into enemy territory and take on 1 of 3 objectives (forgot the name of the mission).

If you want a mission with resupply, a cool respawn system, medivacs and whatever else, you need to make that mission at least 2-3 hours long.

The main issue i see here is balancing. You have to make sure the mission is interesting throughout that timeframe, but doesn't wipe too many players in the beginning that would have to wait for the respawn system. This is very time consuming and I don't think a lot of our mission devs want to spend that much time on a mission that is only played once or twice.

But if you believe in this idea and want to push it forward, i suggest you make such a mission and we can test if it works. Discussing this further is gonna lead nowhere. We need actual testing and a mission dev willing to do this.

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Ender
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Re: Olympus Big Missions Event Poll/Discussion

Post by Ender » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:02 pm

From both the poll and practical reasons the best way to implement a mission and general length is:

-Wednesday or Saturday
-Once a month (most)
-3 hours (half voted 2-3, half voted 3-4)

I will be very bussy this month so I won't be able to help create a mission at this time, but if someone is willing to create a mission following these goals and the ideas suggested by everyone in the thread it would be highly appreciated. If it is created we can put the mission into practice as Smolof said to actually test if the idea works and should be pursued. Message me or a mission maker with much more experience such as Ben to check the mission out for themselves so we truly tested it before trying it out. We want more then two eyes on the mission to avoid it being a nightmare.

Cheers
It is the challenge that makes one better, to push one's limit and actively look for things to do better- Ender

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