Numbers.

Cobra.
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Numbers.

Post by Cobra. »

If you are not blind and haven't been living under a rock you may have noticed our player base has crashed from a good 50 players (sometimes reaching 60) to around a max of 30 with an average of what 25 on a good evening.

I have repeatably heard people saying that Zeus is dying and its dead and they might not be entirely true but it certainly seems like it is on its way out at this current rate with more people leaving than joining. This might be due to the fact people want to play with a large group (which ArmA excels at) and they cannot get that experience here anymore making them leave and our situation ever more dire.

I have also heard said many a time by people that this is a seasonal phenomena and that it will pass. I beg to differ and suggest you take you head out of the ground and look at the chain of events that have lead to this dwindling player base. Just after the Unsung special we were reaching player counts into the 60s, then a couple of months later certain HR choices were made and somebody left the community (of their own accord which is their right), they also took the daytime player base of at least server 2 with them. This has caused a huge gap of players (for better or for worse) meaning we cannot do what people want creating a positive feedback cycle draining our player base.

Along with server downtime and password locks on S1 have also caused demographical issues.

Another issue is it seems that people are just not interested in playing S2/S1 anymore, I know that has always been the case but the numbers of people whom are not interested are increasing. Possibly due to the lack of players or for other reasons.

Throughout the last two community meetings (the most recent had shocking numbers and at the start nearly had more admins than members.) There has been no mention of this and it feels like the admin team is in denial of our situation (Not meaning any bad feelings from saying this.). There has been no official message from the Administration team on our situation.

I do not know how to fix this issue however I know that it should be brought up because this has been going on long enough with people leaving due to low numbers. It is affecting game play quality when ever single mission we do is massively understaffed and is becoming a joke frankly.

This first step on solving a problem is realising there is one.
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[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.
Dave
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Dave »

Some fairly quick suggestions from me...

-------------
1. Advertise the Wednesday/Thursday/Saturday/Sunday gamenights better.

Two parts to this. First part, the forum. There's the header at the top for news and events etc, right now (early hours of Sunday August 27th) it says this:

Upcoming TvT Nights:
DATE: Sunday 20th August
TIME: 6.30pm
WHERE: #1 Zeus Community Game Server

Upcoming Training Sessions:
TBC


So we're advertising one event that already happened a week ago... and that's it. No chance of anyone finding out about gamenights here, and continuing to advertise something several days after it finished does not exactly make the place look active and well maintained.

There's also the central info repository. The homepage has a link for "Weekly Event Schedules" which is taking me to this page, which does not have any event schedules on it, so again no help there: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a0R ... hqAkU/edit

Can we get both of these updated? We're never going to get new people on gamenights if it's really difficult to find out when they are, or even that they happen at all. The only place I can think of that says when they happen is teamspeak, provided people make it that far without joining one of the servers first, and if they find it in a channel description.

-------------
2. Update the homepage in general

I mean this page: https://zeus-community.net/a3/

I only mention it because based on the list of admins, I can only assume it hasn't been updated for about a year. Could also mention gamenights here.

-------------
3. Make Patrol Ops more suited to lower numbers

I'm going to ignore the new version of Patrol Ops for now because 1. I have no idea when it'll be ready and 2. we've only seen it with a load of features disabled and 3. the times I've played it so far have been somewhat ruined by catastrophic performance issues, so I'm referring only to PO3 here.

Patrol Ops is fantastic with a large group (thinking 30+ people), decent with a medium group (say 15+), and generally a bit rubbish with much less than that. It's not a lot of fun to play with 3-4 people hoping more will join because you don't have the numbers to have even two squads working together, you don't have enough AT to deal with armour properly, maybe you don't have any support pilots so "RTB" basically means kill yourself to respawn back at base. Can we do something to make it better for smaller groups? eg.
- Add an AI controlled Ghosthawk or Huron that can be given simple insert/extract/move/RTB orders by squad leaders / CO
- Open up the weapon restrictions on the virtual ammocrate a little, particularly AT, so that one infantry squad can easily add a second/third PCML or Titan (to make up for probably not having CAS, or any other squads for support)
- Maybe a slightly more forgiving revive/bleedout system? Possibly the same as the usual one on server 1 gamenights with the 5 minute bleedout and no instant deaths (provided you can still respawn if it's hopeless)

(Wilcard suggestion: Change to a different standard mission entirely, at least temporarily, one that's more suited to lower numbers without having to modify it)
Ingame/TS: Dave One
Terox
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Terox »

We are well aware of the issue and the reason not much effort has been put into it at this stage is 2 fold

1) When we do put the effort in it will be considerable effort for a week to 2 weeks and everyone that can needs to be on the server when we do this. (So it has to be a joint and focused effort)
2) We don't have anything new to offer at the moment, still waiting for the more developed PO4 release.

So until we have something worth offering there isnt much point in putting in all that effort, it will be wasted and have to be redone later. This will reduce individuals motivation to try again.

There is also efforts afoot to increase our PR presence, this will all be coordinated when we make the push to relaunch the No.1

So have patience
Cobra.
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Cobra. »

Thank you for the response Terox, I just wanted to bring the issue up since I had not heard anything from the admin team to the general community.
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.
Raiden
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Raiden »

Right. Let me be sincere and tell you why I left and many more are in my situation. I will probably get censored so get a screenshot or something before that happens so you know some of the truth.
1. Some admins are a disgrace to the admin team. We all probably know who those are. Its sad cuz there are some high quality admins there and if you guys were to listen to the best admin you guys ever had (STACEY- yeah, him) you will be flourishing right now, no HR stunts or anything, it's just that the if the community wants/needs something, you guys should treat that with great care. We don't want to be in a position of begging.
2. The 45 min briefings... Srsly...
3. The "rotten apples" that are not being dealt with... That's a big no no in a healthy community.
4. The trainings are in such a bad shape and so far and few between that people can't get tags, which is an important thing.
5. The milsim aspect of it which is thoroughly sought after, but its not upholded at all. That does not mean "I'm the boss, fuck off" . Its supposed to be a team effort
6. Less shady meetings, involve the community more than once in a blue moon...

I am not meaning any harm in this, but as Cobra sais, if the wrong isn't acknowledged, it will never be fixed. These are my 100% honest opinions.
Cheers.
Phishton
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Phishton »

Dear raiden.

As you said it is your honest opinion and that is what is needed here is honest opinions, however it could have been presented a bit more of a constructure fashion, And maybe less fluff.

But being honest here I feel like since the "departure" of some members, I felt like some of the nights were slightly more enjoyable, Not from a numbers view, but a personality view, for example your points 3 and 5. The "fuck off, im the boss" and the rotten apples for behavior have been rampant in the "cult" in my honest opinion. I found your favourite admin at the centre of this. Also point 1 is null for many reasons but we will walk round that for now.

Again on point 1 yes there are some situations that the admins make decisions without community input, but they also have all the workings behind the scenes and all the info.

The training is also doing well I still see people applying to it, I may not be part of it personally and as we all know the "tags" don t grant privileges, and I feel it doesn't deter people if someone is to bring it up, it isn't a gateway anymore, plenty of no.1s have come to the add-on scene without the training.

Personally I believe that what people can do is one simple thing.

Pop on to the servers.

I know that people have a disinterest or don't go on because of a certain crowd, but as of late sinces it seems like a few people havnt showed up that I've heard being described with many colourful words. The few people I've newly met are very much up for building the community. I feel that if people went on and out numbered the idiots that spoil it or set them on a better path it would be a healthier server. The admins have their plans but for the players right now we make our presence on these servers when we can and make it better for ourselves.

This is my opinion of the situation

" I will probably get censored so get a screenshot or something before that happens so you know some of the truth." - raiden sorcerer of knowledge
I will probably get censored so get a screenshot or something before that happens so you know some of the truth.
( NAME REDACTED )
Spud
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Spud »

Raiden wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pm The "rotten apples" that are not being dealt with... That's a big no no in a healthy community.
Thank you for taking them away
Raiden
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Raiden »

You know Phishton... It seems you are a pretty new addition soo... You probably have no idea what I'm talking about
Spud
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Spud »

He joined the forums before you Raiden
Raiden
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Raiden »

Before leaving Spud, I was the guy with the most hours on server 2 for about 2 months in already... I cant even remember phiston here
Last edited by ashley on Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Flame
Viper 1-2
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Viper 1-2 »

Spud wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:02 pm
Raiden wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pm The "rotten apples" that are not being dealt with... That's a big no no in a healthy community.
Thank you for taking them away
Dear spud,
im not sure you understand that raiden and a lot of others still care about Zeus community.
I happen to know a lot of folks that left zeus and they were the ones that cared most, the only wall they kept hitting again and again is that their reqeusts/prairs were quite frankly never answered.
i also know more than a few that would return to zeus in a blink of an eye when these issues named by myself and raiden are resolved.
we all started here, and we all care.

kind regards,
viper
If i die, clear my browser history for me.
Cobra.
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Cobra. »

Raiden, phiston is Adam.

He's just a retard that has multiple names and has been here way way longer than you.
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.
Cobra.
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Cobra. »

Ashley, can you close this thread please.
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.
Phishton
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Re: Numbers.

Post by Phishton »

Ok couple of things.

1. Thanks Cobra for defending my families honour, much appreciation
2. Can we keep this somewhat away from the salt, doubt we want a re-run of what happened last time the salt mine was open. might i suggest to just lock the thread if its out of hand
3. Keep it constructive or keep it out

I for one want to see a civil resolve and not some REEEEEE fest
I will probably get censored so get a screenshot or something before that happens so you know some of the truth.
( NAME REDACTED )
ashley
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Re: Numbers.

Post by ashley »

Please keep the conversation clean, cobra is clearly looking for suggestions or information from the admin team. No personal attacks or attacks against any communities please. If your posts are in anyway aggressive or trying to cause insults I will edit them to somethign a little nicer :)

The thread doesn't need to be closed cobra, it just needs proper moderation and people coming up with ideas or feedback. Regardless of how long you have been in this community or whether you remember someone or don't, everyone has an opinion, so respect that and if you want to make trash comments take them to another forum please.

Raiden wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pm 1. Some admins are a disgrace to the admin team. We all probably know who those are. Its sad cuz there are some high quality admins there and if you guys were to listen to the best admin you guys ever had (STACEY- yeah, him) you will be flourishing right now, no HR stunts or anything, it's just that the if the community wants/needs something, you guys should treat that with great care. We don't want to be in a position of begging.
I find this subjective and not at all constructive to the current discussion. Instead of working against admins approach them in a constructive way and tell them where you feel they are lacking.

Raiden wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pm2. The 45 min briefings... Srsly...
Been a while since we've had one of these.

Raiden wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pm3. The "rotten apples" that are not being dealt with... That's a big no no in a healthy community.
I think every single "rotten apple" removed themselves from the community, either that or they have matured a lot and play well on the server. Few problems arise these days from individual members
Raiden wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pm4. The trainings are in such a bad shape and so far and few between that people can't get tags, which is an important thing.
I sort of agree with this, yes the trainings are important to get sorted but they are not in "bad shape". When there are enough numbers they are completed, it takes a lot of prep time and what not for someone to run these so it is much more efficient to run a properly sized group (there is a minimum number needed for obvious reasons) through the training rather than 2 or 3 people at a time.
Raiden wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pm5. The milsim aspect of it which is thoroughly sought after, but its not upholded at all. That does not mean "I'm the boss, fuck off" . Its supposed to be a team effort
I disagree with this, I think zeus has the perfect line between casual and mil sim. Some communities go a little over the line and delve into roleplay but zeus doesn't. I think majority in the community would agree with me there. Obviously there will be improvements to make, but overall, the milsim is pretty top notch.
Raiden wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pm6. Less shady meetings, involve the community more than once in a blue moon...
I've never seen a shady meeting happen. Must be the rumor mill spinning that convinced you of this one. All meetings help by the administration is recorded and the minutes are posted.
Raiden wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pmI am not meaning any harm in this, but as Cobra sais, if the wrong isn't acknowledged, it will never be fixed. These are my 100% honest opinions.
Cheers.
No harm done but I think you couldn't have written it a bit more constructively.


I think the biggest help to the community right now, is people properly bringing up their grievances. People tend to just hold on to them rather than actually bringing them to an admin and getting it acknowledged and resolved. I think this should be our first step so we all know where to try and improve the community.
Dave wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:50 am Some fairly quick suggestions from me...
I wouldn't call these fairly quick, but I would call them exactly the type of suggestions we need. You even made me open sticky notes to remember these :D
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