Avoiding leadership

Why do you shy away from leadership roles?

I find leadership roles boring
4
6%
I don't want the responsibility, I'm scared of making a mistake
11
16%
I don't know how to deal with the comms
8
11%
I find it too stressful
20
29%
I feel like I don't have enough experience
14
20%
Real life or technical issues means prolonged/multiple AFK
13
19%
 
Total votes: 70

User avatar
Wombat
Posts: 601
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:19 am
Contact:

Avoiding leadership

Post by Wombat »

EDIT: The poll results have reset after I added a 6th option to the poll, if you answered the poll before I made this edit, please answer the poll again.

At the moment, we tend to see the same players taking leadership roles (CO, SL, etc.) all the time. On the occasions where these players decide not to take the leadership roles, encouraging other players to take these roles instead can feel like pulling teeth. There have been game-nights where the slotting up process takes 3 times longer than it should just because the majority of players seem to avoid these leadership roles like the plague.

Not only does this phobia cause the slotting up process to drag out but it also has in-game consequences. For example, where the squad-leader becomes incapacitated, the next subordinate in-line needs to take the initiative and step up as the new leader. This doesn't always happen as efficiently as it should mainly due to this avoidance to take responsibility. What's also strange, is the fact that this issue is just as bad if not worse on server#2 where you would expect to find the more experienced players.

So, my question is; Why do you shy away from leadership roles?

The purpose of this thread isn't to shame people but rather gather as much feedback as possible from the community so that we may look into finding possible solutions to this problem i.e. leadership guides, tutorials, training missions. Please provide more information or context to your poll answers by posting below.
ashley
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by ashley »

We have plenty of people who pick up the leader role after their Squadleader dies, I think the problem there is minimal and basically not an issue. But it does beg the question as to why these people don't take leader slots at the start of the mission...

The training was meant to provide people with basic knowledge of squadleading and anything past that you pick up by yourself and through trial and error. Maybe encouraging more people to take leadership roles would help, we (Admins) tend to just ask people to slot up and wait for decades for them to do so, rather than saying "Hey, who would like to squadlead but doesn,t know how to?", doing this allows us to get more people being squadleaders and then just have a teamleader in the squad to guide them and pick up the role if things get to much or they can't handle it.

I think what HAS to stop and what can cause a lot of anxiety for some people is being told that they will be chosen to take leader roles if people don't slot into them. This can cause massive issues during the mission if this person can't handle it or doesn't want to do it but is instead made to. If I was picked to be Squadlead when I didn't want to I wouldn't try my best as I didn't want to be in that role. It is just detrimental to the mission.

I think there is a lot more we can do to encourage more people to take leadership roles, having a backup squadlead within a squad to guide new people is my suggestion. Maybe people have better ones than me :D
Bank
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Bank »

Personally I really enjoy leadership roles, but due to my unreliable internet I feel bad taking a vital role when I know I might have a sudden disconnect. Its the same reason I chose not to fly- although I love it and feel very confident flying, I don't like 10 other people being at the mercy of South African internet.
Not wrong, just an asshole
Smolof
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Smolof »

I simply don't enjoy being SL. Constant comms, maybe some difficult squad members, it just ruins the experience for me. The main reason I play is to relax after work. And SL is not relaxing at all.
Cobra.
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Sagittarius A*
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Cobra. »

I like commanding even though I'm not the best at it, I hate Squad Leading due to the fact A: People can be really arses in your squad and B: I'm not entirely confident in that type of role and pretty bad at it.
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey @Cobra! Please don't use bad words!
[3:33 PM] BOTMEE6: Hey, sorry about this but... you got banned from Zeus by MEE6#4876 for 'Too many infractions..'

please do not swear on my christian youth server.
User avatar
Rodi
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:08 pm
Location: Germoney
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Rodi »

People don´t want the responsibility of handling 7+ people, who may be fuckwits on purpose, or just very new players in general, when you are looking to have fun playing ARMA after work or school.
Rip Inglisch
Tom
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Tom »

On the no1: it's a whole bunch of people you don't know... Let's face it, half of us don't like to talk to people, let alone people they never talked to.

On the no2: beats me, maybe issues with mastering TFAR or too many comms on TFAR being too much of a challenge? I have no idea.

What puts me of of taking lead roles atm is: not being sure how long i can stay online + possible long afk's.
It has happened that I go afk for a call from work and don't come back for half an hour... Not good when you're a lead. Going further on this, it feels like a massive insult to then be called someone who is afraid of taking responsibility (adding to that, that i don't have all night to just sit there and wait for an admin to positively encourage behaviour instead of negatively.) But I guess that's my problem.
User avatar
Wombat
Posts: 601
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:19 am
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Wombat »

I've added another option to the poll and enabled users to change their answers.

Unfortunately, doing so has reset all poll results so please answer the poll again if you answered it before I made this post.
lucius
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:18 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by lucius »

I just wish to add to Wombat's initial statement with regard to unintended consequences.

With the same people being constantly taking up the leadership roles owing to the absence of new people stepping up we are going to hit issues. Im sure im not the only one, among those who take these roles, who grows tired of spending 90%+ of rounds as a lead element. The result of this is twofold:

1. general burnout - it requires some small focus and discipline to lead a group, if you have already done this week after week and are left thinking "oh its up to me again" instead you are left with the knowledge that another game night means a low chance of having ANY relaxed game play. Long term this will lead to an ever decreasing pool of leadership since a paucity of people stepping up and an increase in those who can't take it any longer lead to a deficit. eg. last S2 game night i decided to take no leadership role yet the pool is so small that it seemed missing even one willing leader created massive slot-up problems.

2. burnout on the night - eg. when its the third mission in the night and you have already lead elements during the 2 previous you often have little energy left to give. By that stage you have already given a fair amount, your aware there is a good chance that next round will be the same, then you have little invested in anything other than getting it over with before you break down, you will be slower to react and spot, swifter but less secure in movement and more muddled in contact, these things do not improve game play.

I would at this point like to state that I DON'T believe we should be forcing people to take these roles by slotting up, this is detrimental to game play also for all the obvious reasons.

I would also like to offer my sincere thanks to those who do step up and fill the silences when they occur, although your number is few i am sincerely grateful.

My final word would be this. Having fresh people as squad leads provide variety as well as allowing others to expand skills or explore other game play. I doubt that many in the pool of current regular leadership do this 2-4 times a night out of a desire to take the role but instead to get the whole thing rolling forward and generate quality play. In summary those who have been taking up the mantle either long term or more recently will be increasingly disinterested in the roles, they do not step up because its the only part of ARMA game play they enjoy but instead as DUTY to the others in the community in order to generate game play.

I implore and exhort those who do not take these roles to think of the long term effects, if not on the community, then on yourselves - one day we may be in a position where all the 'experienced' leadership is not there for you, then who will lead? and how will that mission go?

Ask not what your community can do for you but what you can do for your community :)
User avatar
Wombat
Posts: 601
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:19 am
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Wombat »

Thanks Lucius for expanding on the consequences but I would just like to add that taking a leadership role should not feel like "taking one for the team" in the first place.

Taking a leadership role should not be done as a sacrifice or for any sense of duty. Taking a leadership role should be done because you genuinely enjoy the game-play, challenge, satisfaction etc. the role provides.

I often take leadership roles simply because I enjoy the unique experience it provides. The idea that leadership roles are genuinely fun shouldn't come as a surprise or shock.

I believe there are many members in this community who, if they were just brave enough to give it a shot, would discover that commanding a platoon or leading a squad is a thrilling experience. An experience worth seeking.

Leading isn't easy but where's the fun in easy? With a little encouragement, mentoring and practice, anyone can have fun exploring, developing and perfecting their leadership skills.
lucius
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:18 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by lucius »

I agree wholeheartedly Wombat and you express the positives of taking the leadership roles exactly. Just to clarify my tone with regards to the role, which scans as somewhat negative, I really wanted to express the fact that over exposure to it can dull the edge and affect game play.

Regardless of how much leadership experience a player has there are always fresh challenges, scenarios and approaches to explore.
Dave
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Dave »

I take leadership roles sometimes, but when I don't there are two main reasons:

1. The "real life" factor. I feel like I have to pretty much 100% commit to being available for however long the mission takes, which isn't known in advance and can easily be two hours or more. That's a pretty long time to say that I definitely won't have to leave, and even if you want to get a drink or go to the bathroom or something then that one minute absence starts to have an impact on about ten other people. It can be mitigated to an extent by having someone in your squad who you know can take over if needed, but it depends on there being such a person and they won't have command channel chat so are limited anyway.

2. It can be stressful. Particularly when you've got 10 people on squad chat on teamspeak, 10 more on command chat, both inadvertently talking over each other until you tell them to hold comms or repeat something or wait. It's a different challenge, and sometimes I really enjoy it, but sometimes it's 10 at night and you've got work the next morning and I just want to run around and shoot at some stuff occasionally and not have to put too much thought into it.

Fundamentally I play for fun, and while a leadership role can certainly be fun, sometimes I just plain don't want to put in the commitment and attention that taking a leadership role requires, at least if you want to make a good job of it.

Probably the biggest issue I have when playing as a squad leader is dealing with command chat, especially in big missions with about ten different squads. The real issue there is ARMA itself not allowing for a company commander -> platoon leaders -> squad leaders sort of hierarchical radio chat. I have to be listening to command chat constantly, and it's usually going almost constantly, and 75% of it doesn't concern me at all. It's just a lot to deal with without it starting to becoming not all that much fun.


- Dave One
Ingame/TS: Dave One
Milton
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:01 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Milton »

My self personally go with what ever I feel like. If I can be bothered then I would lead a squad however I do keep my eye at the bottom of the list because I do enjoy support roles from time to time and feel comfortable leading a 2-4 man team.
Beyond your Ken
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by Beyond your Ken »

Playing as in leadership roles has mostly bin negative. I have only taken lead slots on server 1 and because of that and do not attempt it anymore. I sometimes slot up when nobody is going to take the slot for the team. Some people don't like my style of leadership in co role. Some missions as CO I had to repeat my self for over 3-5mins to get a response(these people were up and not in contact and I even stood infront of them and talked in direct and wiggled).When orders are asked and they take way too much time to execute the order. Coms are always on either on command(either explain things by every detail with the added aaahh or having to call command every time rather then tell the net rather then a blunt exp. Alpha at wp, holding) or in team(on team it's mostly banter). server 1 sq is like being an rto, teamleader, and rifleman at the same time. Planning time is way to long when sq as every other squad lead complains to command what to do when not ask for that but for if they do not understood the plan. I will say that I have said in chat rather tell the tale that I also have a different idea if they would like to listen. Last thing I hate is trying to find something to do or entertain my team when we are just waiting and doing nothing(root reason I stop play patrol ops, sitting and waiting).

I will admit their are times when it is fun. Like leading in ad can be very rewarding. When people are listen and follow your orders it makes it enjoyable and progress smoothly. Sometimes a mission turns into a hairy situation and still be fun. Missions I have commanded that were not ad or that last mission I CO had very low kia factor. I don't even mind when a person wings the mission rather meticulously planning and then scraps it as a sudden event crushes that plan.
User avatar
2600K
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding leadership

Post by 2600K »

Server #1 - Communication
  • Squad isn't all in TS.
  • Multiple people taking at once.
  • Have to herd entire squad as inexperienced SLs/JIPs.
New players can make things more stressful, but equally makes accomplishing the mission very rewarding at the end.

Server #2 - Experience
  • Focus on those who are confident and capable for the role, may exclude those unsure.
  • Mistakes are tough, they kill you/your team - Lose confidence leading to above.
Those that do lead are exceptionally good at it.


The Commander and their approach to the mission may also have an impact, some may fear the added stress of a poorly executed plan or the Commanders high expectations from them instead of seeing it as a challenge to succeed.

Perhaps the mission itself is poorly designed, is our ORBAT part of the problem? Can it be improved, should we try something new?

e.g
Platoon lead element added between groups of squads and command?
Separate RTOs to ease off the TLs job?
Smaller squads Overall?


Or maybe just shorter missions? Anyone who can manage to lead and keep focused for a 2 hour mission must be super-human or drink a lot of coffee.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests